JM Wong writes:
Hello dear elves! I'd like to correct some of the finer points about Singlish as a language....
Singlish is more a patois/creole language, but is NOT a substitute for English in everyday life. Words like "layleo", "Lolex" and "oleng joo" are mostly mispronounciations of the actual English words, and most of the people that say them are of the older generation where English isn't their first language.
An Elf Replies:
Thank you for your e-mail (as well as Julie, Caryn and Francesca and all who kindly pointed this out).
The QI elves are a well travelled bunch but there is no substitute for local knowledge, and so we occasionally do find ourselves challenged by viewers when we talk about their home country. This will come in the form of us saying "People in 'x' do 'y'." which give us numerous replies of "I live in 'x' and I've never heard of 'y'."
In the future show, we reported that the language of the future might be Panglish, an odd creole predicted by Suzette Haden Elgin, a retired linguist formerly at San Diego State University and a team of mathematical biologists led by Mark Pagel of the University of Reading.
The idea is that in thousands of years, English may not have died out, but could have evolved into an all new language. In 1200 years time, Harry Potter may be as intelligible to the children of the future as Beowulf is to us.
Ok so far, but then we gave examples of a similar langauge around today: Singlish.
Singlish is an English-based creole used by young people in Singapore, incorporating English informalities as well as a number of Chinese and Malay words. Words that we covered, including Layleo, Lolex and Orlang Tzu (meaning Radio, Rolex and Orange Juice) would be much more likely heard by older Singaporeans who struggle to get their tongues round a new language. They are not Singlish words.
Disappointingly, I personally visited the beautifully clean and green country of Singapore only a few weeks after this show was written and had first-hand contact with the language which is notable for its enchanting lilt, and the word "Lah" that finishes almost every sentence. If only I had gone a month or so earlier, perhaps this error would never have been made.
Quibble Qualified.
Sources:
New Scientist: Mar 08
Lonely Planet - Singapore
Do you have a bone to pick with QI? E-mail us here: elves@qi.com
Hello dear elves! I'd like to correct some of the finer points about Singlish as a language....
Singlish is more a patois/creole language, but is NOT a substitute for English in everyday life. Words like "layleo", "Lolex" and "oleng joo" are mostly mispronounciations of the actual English words, and most of the people that say them are of the older generation where English isn't their first language.
An Elf Replies:
Thank you for your e-mail (as well as Julie, Caryn and Francesca and all who kindly pointed this out).
The QI elves are a well travelled bunch but there is no substitute for local knowledge, and so we occasionally do find ourselves challenged by viewers when we talk about their home country. This will come in the form of us saying "People in 'x' do 'y'." which give us numerous replies of "I live in 'x' and I've never heard of 'y'."
In the future show, we reported that the language of the future might be Panglish, an odd creole predicted by Suzette Haden Elgin, a retired linguist formerly at San Diego State University and a team of mathematical biologists led by Mark Pagel of the University of Reading.
The idea is that in thousands of years, English may not have died out, but could have evolved into an all new language. In 1200 years time, Harry Potter may be as intelligible to the children of the future as Beowulf is to us.
Ok so far, but then we gave examples of a similar langauge around today: Singlish.
Singlish is an English-based creole used by young people in Singapore, incorporating English informalities as well as a number of Chinese and Malay words. Words that we covered, including Layleo, Lolex and Orlang Tzu (meaning Radio, Rolex and Orange Juice) would be much more likely heard by older Singaporeans who struggle to get their tongues round a new language. They are not Singlish words.
Disappointingly, I personally visited the beautifully clean and green country of Singapore only a few weeks after this show was written and had first-hand contact with the language which is notable for its enchanting lilt, and the word "Lah" that finishes almost every sentence. If only I had gone a month or so earlier, perhaps this error would never have been made.
Quibble Qualified.
Sources:
New Scientist: Mar 08
Lonely Planet - Singapore
Do you have a bone to pick with QI? E-mail us here: elves@qi.com
thanks qi elves! = )
I think the adding of Lah at the end of the word might be due to Islamic (and by inference Arabic) influence on the culture.
Lah or La is arabic for no, and sentences are often ended in it with the implied meaning of "don't you agree with me" this is similar to the Japanese use of the word word/particle "Ne" to imply rhetorical questions.
Lah is in fact le the Chinese particle that ends a sentence. It stresses the meaning of the sentence and also signifies that an event has happened or in the past.
For example... In Singlish ...
'Ok Le' Means OK as you would answer a question.
'Ok ma' Means OK? as you are asking a question.
'ma' is another Chinese particle which signifies a question.
The end particle 'lah' (sometimes also spelt as 'larh' or 'luh', but they are less common) has its origin, as far as I know, from Cantonese (other Chinese dialects may use it too, but not sure on that), though I'm quite sure it also occurs in Malay. It is mostly used to soften the force of a sentence and also to encourage solidarity with the listener ("Eat lah!"), though it can also be used for short, negative responses ("I dun know lah!"), reassurance ("Okay lah!" - fairly widespread use in Hong Kong too), et cetera.
That's the basic, in any case, though there might be a myriad of details I have missed/didn't know - I am originally from Hong Kong rather than Singapore, after all...
The particle 'le' or 'la' '了' comes from chinese, and is used in both Mandarin and Cantonese as well as various other dialects and has many grammatical functions. For example it indicates an accomplished fact, a completed action, excessiveness & change of state. It differs from the end particle 'la' '拉' which i think you are refering to, which is used mainly to indicate surprise, and to make a suggestion or request sound more friendly.
The particle is the same particle pronounced "le" in mandarin...I am not sure how it's actually supposed to be pronounced in Cantonese. (I'm agreeing with Ollie on this one, but I'm just going to elaborate a bit)
The character looks something like a j with a v turned onto its side stuck onto the top of it (that description is not great-sorry...I changed computers so have no mandarin software anymore to show you).
In standard mandarin it is used to convey completed action as in "zuo wan le." (It is done/it has been done/I have done it) or an expression of excessiveness, usually used in concert with the word "tai" which basically translates to "too" (as in "too much"), for example "Tai guofen le" (that's too excessive/you've gone too far.) "Tai re le" (too hot/it's too hot).
In Singapore and Malaysia however, "lah" (spelled with the h in common Singlish) has taken on a life of its own. It can be used as punctuation for most things in casual speech, and serves a similar function, perhaps, to some of the pause markers in classical chinese (though more casual, obviously) such as "ye" (as you would find in the LunYu or Analects of Confucius). It's even used in a tongue in cheek way to "localise" events and advertising.
Lah has become more than a word in Singapore, it is an expression of Singaporean identity, and Singlish, and all of the cultural problematics that go with that
I really hope that the standard of knowledge expressed about the Chinese language and Chinese characters improves on QI, because although I am a HUGE fan of the programme, it's one of the main areas that I am always disappointed in. Correct pronunciation is a bit of a tall order but at least we could get the facts straight. :P
This is all very interesting, but coming from liverpool it sounds like singlish has a lot in common with scouse, sentences end in lah all the time.
''("Eat lah!"), though it can also be used for short, negative responses ("I dun know lah!"), reassurance ("Okay lah!" - fairly widespread use in Hong Kong too), et cetera.''
they all work in liverpool in the same way.
not a quibble but seems a quite intersting coincidence to me.
I recall that some of my Liverpudlian freinds and aquaintances sometimes used the greeting. "Ho dere Lah". Amongst several quirky expressions used by the Scouse tribe, this one sticks in my mind. Lovely people by a little odd.
I'm glad so many people found the time to comment on that series. I am from Singapore and if you came here and asked for 'Or leng joo' most people would just look at you with a look of confusion on their face.
Thank you so much for clarifying. As a Singaporean, I'm relieved that no one will view us as the murderers of English language.