Kung-Fu Pandering

Hello Elves.

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We point to the Guinness World Record for kicks which is 50 kicks in 22.0 seconds, while Ali can be seen in a professional fight throwing 11 Punches in 3 Seconds.

Although Ali got in more punches would it be fair to say they would have been jabs rather than a full punch and would have Lee's legs been longer to avoid the punches/jabs.

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Lee never fought a professional fight, he was an actor and demonstrator rather than a professional pugilist.

Didn't Lee start out as a street fighter?
To say Lee was a demonstrator really underrates Lees achievements. Lee invented Jeet Kune Do a revolutionary new way to practice martial arts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeet_Kune_Do

Lee also started to teach Americans, which he had to defend the right to teach by defeating one of Asia top martial artist I believe.

It sounds as if your saying he was full of hot air but I did hear about a guy on the set of "Enter the Dragon" who also thought that and decided to test Bruce, he walked upto Lee and tapped his foot a few times (Which is a signal to have a fight I think). The guy threw a kick at Lee and Lee brushed it away then Lee kicked and the guy said "That missed" then some teeth fell out.

180 mile an hour kick and 120 mile an hour punch, I believe are the fastest a martial artist can achieve.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Lee

Challengers on the set

Lee's celebrity and martial arts prowess often put him on a collision course with a number of street thugs, stunt men and martial arts extras, all hoping to make a name for themselves. Lee typically defused such challenges without fighting, but felt forced to respond to several persistent individuals.

Bob Wall, USPK karate champion and co-star in Enter the Dragon, recalled a particularly serious encounter that transpired after a film extra kept taunting Lee. The extra yelled that Lee was "a movie star, not a martial artist," that he "wasn't much of a fighter." Lee answered his taunts by asking him to jump down from the wall he was sitting on. Bob Wall described Lee's opponent as "a gang-banger type of guy from Hong Kong," a "damned good martial artist," and observed that he was fast, strong, and bigger than Bruce.[24]

Wall recalled the confrontation in detail:

"This kid was good. He was strong and fast, and he was really trying to punch Bruce's brains in. But Bruce just methodically took him apart."[25] "Bruce kept moving so well, this kid couldn't touch him...Then all of a sudden, Bruce got him and rammed his ass into the wall and swept him, he proceeded to drop his knee into his opponent's chest, locked his arm out straight, and nailed him in the face repeatedly."[26]

After his victory, Lee gave his opponent lessons on how to improve his fighting skills. His opponent, now impressed, would later say to Lee, "You really are a master of the martial arts."

Bruce was also trained in Western boxing and won the 1958 Boxing Championship match against 3-time champion Gary Elms by knockout in the 3rd round. Before arriving to the finals against Elms, Lee had knocked out 3 straight boxers in the first round.

You Elves are wrong, I believe, because Lee was not just a "Demonstrator" and this term undermines Lee's achievements, also on the set of "Enter the Dragon" another accomplished Martial Artist thought Lee was just an actor so tapped his foot a few times (which is a sign to initiate a fight) and as Bob Wall recalled the confrontation in detail:

"This kid was good. He was strong and fast, and he was really trying to punch Bruce's brains in. But Bruce just methodically took him apart." "Bruce kept moving so well, this kid couldn't touch him...Then all of a sudden, Bruce got him and rammed his ass into the wall and swept him, he proceeded to drop his knee into his opponent's chest, locked his arm out straight, and nailed him in the face repeatedly."
After his victory, Lee gave his opponent lessons on how to improve his fighting skills. His opponent, now impressed, would later say to Lee, "You really are a master of the martial arts.)
He revolutionised Martial Arts with Jeet Kune Do (It is a whole lot more that mixed martial arts).
Was not a "Professional Pugilist" what utter tripe Lee was fighting in street fights from 5 years old and Bruce was also trained in Western boxing and won the 1958 Boxing Championship match against 3-time champion Gary Elms by knockout in the 3rd round. Before arriving to the finals against Elms, Lee had knocked out 3 straight boxers in the first round.
Lee could punch faster and kick quicker because he never stopped training in all types of combat.
Would Lee's legs have a longer reach than Ali's arms, he would not have needed to kick and with one arm Lee would have dodge all Ali's punches and knocked him out.

Pure speculation. Bruce Lee was not competitive that is true, but doesn't mean he couldn't fight. Bruce Lee trained to fight in an enviroment without rules, Ali did not.

In martial arts, it is not your size or your strength that counts anyway. You are also assuming that the fight would be won by knocking someone out. What if Bruce Kicked Ali in the testicles, or broke his leg, or arm? Or how about eye gouging, use of weapons and so on.

Fights take on many shapes and forms, to say that Ali would defeat Bruce Lee in a genuine fight is nothing more than speculation. It is a question which is totally impossible to answer.

Worry not about the complaints of those whose you may have offended by saying strength, size and reach are an advantage in unarmed combat.

It is an unfortunate side-effect of campy martial arts movies that some people believe short, slight, and twitchy is the True Path. The alluring deception of David vs. Goliath stories aside, most sane people recognize that weight classes in combat sports are not there to protect the _bigger_ fighters from the smaller ones.

It is also too bad that the Ultimate Fighting Championship and similar organizations have only been in the public eye for less than 10 years, and existed at all for less than 20. They provide an excellent service in demonstrating that to be the best one must fight the best, and that nobody -- not even Anderson Silva or Bruce Lee -- is invulnerable. Well, except Fedor Emelianenko, obviously.

By the way, in the UFC today, everyone has trained extensively in wrestling and submissions. Practitioners of pure striking martial arts with no grappling training have not been seen inside the octagon since the mid-90s, when they generally got choked out or their elbows hyperextended in very short order.

And here, barring an unbelievably lucky high kick, would lie Bruce Lee's only chance against Muhammad Ali: if Mr. Ali made no attempt to study the basics of wrestling, jujitsu, etc., Mr. Lee could turn the fight into a grappling match where his whole body could still out-muscle one arm of the heavyweight boxer -- and boxing is much harder with ripped elbow ligaments.

Eggshaped! Shame on you!
'However, we have recieved much correspondence since the show was aired'
This is the second time. It may well be a typo, since I cannot believe that you can't spell 'received', but you should really use that 'preview' button.

Google Fight has a resounding win for Lee...

http://is.gd/mwxg

Based on the Law of the Jungle, which has sufficed for most of creation, I would rather bet my money on the larger man.

Lee could cause a 300-lb (136 kg) bag to fly towards and thump the ceiling with a sidekick.

(Little, John (1998), Bruce Lee: The Art of Expressing the Human Body, Tuttle Publishing, p. 22)

Granted, Ali was larger. There is documentation, however, that Lee could muster enough force to seriously injure even Ali. Does not speed have a stronger relationship to power than mass?

Hi Elves
Let's re-think the Bruce Lee fight with Ali.
Ali never to my mind had a real street fight, he was a one dimensional tournament boxer.
Bruce had street fights-a-plenty in his youth and trained in many many forms of combat styles. To think he would try to outbox a boxer is daft he would have more sense and experience than that.
Ali had a mixed martial arts fight with a man called Antonio Inoki and although Ali's legs were damamaged enough to plauge his later career Inoki was only allowed to kick when he was grounded (had contact with the floor with the other leg, so not standing) imagine someone faster than Inoki who could kick harder too. It's worth remembering that Bruce thought kicking above the waist was not practical so his kicks would have been all groin/knee/shin to avoid then being blocked.

Ali was fast for a heavyweight but not fast compared to a lightweight.
Bruce trained in Wing Chun and had very fast hands check out 'chain punching' or the 'Wing Chun blast' as some people call it. Teachers and some students (who practice hard) can throw in the area of 10 punches per second, a lot faster than Ali, not sure how many Bruce could throw but do the math or check out some interviews with people that knew him as everyone who met him stated he was blindingly fast Chuck Norris for one. It is also noted by many that trained with him that he punched way above his weight.

Bruce was creating real world fighting abilities not a sprots martial arts, he was a street fighter not a boxer with rules and time limited rounds, he trained with students who were pro boxers/street fighters/wrestlers/Judoka and bigger by far Google these guys you should find some of them:

Al Novak 275 pounds competition fighter.

Jesse Glover: Glover was a champion judoka when he met Bruce Lee in 1959. Glover is considered by many fellow Seattle Era students to be Bruce Lee's best student.

James DeMile: DeMile was a 225 pound undefeated boxer in the Air Force and a feared street fighter prior to meeting Bruce Lee in 1959.

Ed Hart: Hart was a 240 pound professional boxer prior to meeting Bruce Lee in 1959.

Patrick Strong: Strong was only 17 years old when he met Bruce Lee in 1960. At the time he met Bruce Lee, Strong was boxing and he later garnered black belts in several martial arts.

Leroy Garcia: Garcia was a former boxer and a feared street fighter when he met Bruce Lee in 1959.

Robert Baker: Baker had trained in several martial arts and was a feared street fighter prior to meeting Bruce Lee in 1965. Baker played a Russian tough guy in Fists of Fury.

Howard Williams: Williams was only 15 years old when he met Bruce Lee, but he may have been Bruce Lee's most talented student. Jesse Glover stated that Williams had "Bruce Lee-like attributes."

Leo Fong: Fong trained in several martial arts and is viewed by many as being the person who convinced Bruce Lee to add boxing techniques to his fighting method.

Larry Hartsell: 235 pound, Hartsell was a black belt in Kenpo karate when he met Bruce Lee in 1967. Hartsell went on to become JKD's expert on grappling.

Bob Bremer: Bremer also trained in Kenpo karate and is considered to be the best fighter of the Chinatown Era.

Dan Lee: Lee was a boxing champion in China and with the exception of Bob Bremer and Larry Hartsell, he was considered to be the best fighter of the Chinatown Era.
In any interview I've seen (there's plenty on youtube) they claim Bruce ran rings around them all.

Bruce also trained grappling/Judo/Wrestling with:

Gene Lebell very famous Judo/Westling/Stuntman Google him the list of his achievements are too long for this comment.

Hayward Nishioka American Judo, Nishioka was United States Division judo Champion three times, in 1965, 1966 and 1970 he won a gold medal in the Pan-American Games in 1967

Wally Jay At age 11, he began to study boxing under a community program. In 1940, he studied Danzan Ryu jujutsu under Juan Gomez and also learned judo under the former Hawaiian Champion, Ken Kawachi [1]. Jay and his wife Bernice were awarded on 1948-02-22, a Certificate of Mastery by Seishiro Okazaki, the founder of Danzan Ryu jujutsu, however his wife is not currently active in training[2]. Jay also spent time with Bruce Lee and his associates in 1962 teaching them judo and jujutsu techniques

Smaller that Ali but with a world more techniques in things Ali would never have heard of, Bruce had the edge in a street fight, but I concede that if the fight were a boxing match with gloves rules and rounds then Ali would win hands down.

Fry took his claim from an online discussion, almost quoting it word for word. He clearly had no idea what he was talking about, and had barely understood what he read. He did not say 'most people would say...' he stated it as a fact (he is very hazy about the difference between fact and opinion). What had clearly impressed him was the claim that a kick takes longer than a punch. He then failed to connect this with how Lee actually fought.

The discussion forum from which he lifted his argument was a dull-witted affair populated by thugs.