Brian Jones writes:
I [would like] to point out an error made by Stephen Fry in one of the broadcasts.
The error was that he seemingly referred to 'Cumbria' as a geographical location/county which, I can assure you, it quite definitely isn't.
An Elf Replies:
As someone who was born and lives in Bolton, and still insists on addressing his letters as "Bolton, Lancashire," I can sympathise with your aggrievement over the use of the term "Cumbria," but the fact is that it is correct. The local government act of 1972 brought the county of Cumbria into effect: Cumbria County Council can be found here: http://www.cumbria.gov.uk/
Stephen has never referred to Cumbria as a county, his quotes were:
"There's been a lot of research by the Canine Behaviour Centre in Cumbria"
[series 4: Episode 3]
and
"Anyway, let's move away . . . There is a small hill in Cumbria called Torpenhow. "
[Series 3: Episode 10]
As you can see, on neither occasion did he claim that Cumbria was a county. He merely said that the two places were "in Cumbria" - by this he can quite rightly claim to be talking about the administrative area rather than the ceremonial county.
Many people find the new county names distasteful; as does Stephen: in the third episode of the latest series Stephen also said:
"The West Midland county, people call it a county, but I don't really accept it as one"
But to claim that something is "in Cumbria" is absolutely fine, because:
i) Cumbria Administrative County exists
ii) This is often known simply as "Cumbria"
iii) The things we mentioned are in this area.
iv) People understand what you mean when you say something is "in Cumbria"
Furthermore, the phrase "In Cumbria" many thousands of citations, for instance:
Spread across Cumbria from the popular Lake District to the less touristy west coast of the county are more than 35 installations - The Times (04/10/2006)
Bewcastle Cross - runic monument in Cumbria, Eng., dating from the late 7th or early 8th century. [Encyclopaedia Britannica]
Alstonite - named after Alston, in Cumbria, where found. [Oxford English Dictionary]
You may well claim all these as "wrong" but the fact is that languages evolve. Something that can be seen by the fact that until the 15th century, the word 'girl' just means a child of either sex. No-one in their right mind would say that this is still the correct meaning.
If the OED, Times and EBR are happy that this is now an acceptable form of speech, then who are we to disagree.
Quibble Quashed - unless you know better, please comment below...
Sources: OED, EBR, Brewers Britain & Ireland,
http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/planningandbuilding/circularlocalgovernment
http://www.cumbria.gov.uk/
For further reading on awareness of the historic British counties:
http://www.abcounties.co.uk/
Do you have a bone to pick with QI? E-mail us here: elves@qi.com
I [would like] to point out an error made by Stephen Fry in one of the broadcasts.
The error was that he seemingly referred to 'Cumbria' as a geographical location/county which, I can assure you, it quite definitely isn't.
An Elf Replies:
As someone who was born and lives in Bolton, and still insists on addressing his letters as "Bolton, Lancashire," I can sympathise with your aggrievement over the use of the term "Cumbria," but the fact is that it is correct. The local government act of 1972 brought the county of Cumbria into effect: Cumbria County Council can be found here: http://www.cumbria.gov.uk/
Stephen has never referred to Cumbria as a county, his quotes were:
"There's been a lot of research by the Canine Behaviour Centre in Cumbria"
[series 4: Episode 3]
and
"Anyway, let's move away . . . There is a small hill in Cumbria called Torpenhow. "
[Series 3: Episode 10]
As you can see, on neither occasion did he claim that Cumbria was a county. He merely said that the two places were "in Cumbria" - by this he can quite rightly claim to be talking about the administrative area rather than the ceremonial county.
Many people find the new county names distasteful; as does Stephen: in the third episode of the latest series Stephen also said:
"The West Midland county, people call it a county, but I don't really accept it as one"
But to claim that something is "in Cumbria" is absolutely fine, because:
i) Cumbria Administrative County exists
ii) This is often known simply as "Cumbria"
iii) The things we mentioned are in this area.
iv) People understand what you mean when you say something is "in Cumbria"
Furthermore, the phrase "In Cumbria" many thousands of citations, for instance:
Spread across Cumbria from the popular Lake District to the less touristy west coast of the county are more than 35 installations - The Times (04/10/2006)
Bewcastle Cross - runic monument in Cumbria, Eng., dating from the late 7th or early 8th century. [Encyclopaedia Britannica]
Alstonite - named after Alston, in Cumbria, where found. [Oxford English Dictionary]
You may well claim all these as "wrong" but the fact is that languages evolve. Something that can be seen by the fact that until the 15th century, the word 'girl' just means a child of either sex. No-one in their right mind would say that this is still the correct meaning.
If the OED, Times and EBR are happy that this is now an acceptable form of speech, then who are we to disagree.
Quibble Quashed - unless you know better, please comment below...
Sources: OED, EBR, Brewers Britain & Ireland,
http://www.communities.gov.uk/publications/planningandbuilding/circularlocalgovernment
http://www.cumbria.gov.uk/
For further reading on awareness of the historic British counties:
http://www.abcounties.co.uk/
Do you have a bone to pick with QI? E-mail us here: elves@qi.com
Come on Mr Jones! A retraction of your bold statement is surely in order! These Elves seem to have given you a definitave answer as to why you are wrong - a simple "fair enough; point taken" or similar would surely suffice in recognition!
I wonder where Mr Jones hails from. Is he a Cumbrian who wishes to revert back to Cumberland and Westmorland?
It's quite simple, both parties are right, as Cumbria is a modern county, created in 1974 encompassing the whole of the historical county of Cumberland, along with most of Westmorland and parts of Lancashire and the North Riding of Yorkshire!
I take offence to this statement as I live in Barrow-in-Furness, Cumbria.
I was born in 1976 so fall into the category of Cumbrian not in the county of Lancashire as it was previously.
The older generation (including my mother), still consider themselves as from Lancashire despite the change.
I'm glad it has changed and Cumbria was formed.